Re: Lujvo/Le'avla proposals for Lojbab

[jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU]

Several people responded on this; Nick's response was very complete.
I don't think I can do better than the lujvo already posted.  Here
are a few comments on questions raised.

> #case,parameter      X1 is the first case of relation X2+
> mupli? krefu? seems too vague a concept for a single word.

In Lojbyglico jargon this would be "place".  {sumti} refers to an "actual
parameter", i.e. that which occupies a "place", but I don't see any
gismu for a "formal parameter", i.e. that which is occupied.  In case-
oriented languages the cases are alleged to have uniform semantic roles,
though exceptions seem to outnumber compliant examples.

> #degree              X1 IEC X2 times one degree of angle 1/360 of a circle.
> janrau

jgarau (jganu gradu, angle unit), I think.

> #fin,oar             X1 is an oar of X2 Also fins of fishes.
> An oar is a djacu catke ganra. A fin may be a djacu catke xance, or a djacu
> catke xadni bo pagbu

djacu catke grana (water shove rod), I think.  At one time I used
the equivalent of djacu catke canpa (...shovel), but TLI people thought
the metaphor was too ugly and provided me with a gismu.

> #infinitive          X1 is a member of phrase's meaning set
> This place structure I don't get at all. gernrxinfinitivo, or a whole kettle
> of fish if lujvo.

In lojbyglico this is "abstraction", i.e. one of those bridi that
are prefixed with "nu", "ka", etc.  I don't see an applicable gismu.

> #modal               X1 is the default modal argument for the following
>  predicate
> # The default is not changed; the sentence is simply true or false.
> #modal               X1 becomes the default modal argument for the following
> # predicate The prior default is saved on its stack.
> #modal               X1 is the modal case of relation X2+ on dimension X3
>  -actual
> # argument.
> Don't get these at all. cmavo be zo bai

{ cmavo be zo bai } is what's being talked about, and sort of fits the
third definition, vaguely.  The middle one is Lojban
{ki}.  The first one reads out what the tense default is, in the style
of a selbri; I don't think Lojban has an analog of this.

> #steak               X1 is a steak from kind of animal X2 A piece of meat
> # making a single serving.
> plata klani rectu ?

Typo: should be palta klani rectu.  For me, even as a parallel diktanru,
(X-klani) Y doesn't "lock in" as meaning a Y whose quantity is X.  But
maybe I'm just weird.  (Lojbab sniggers :-)  This word is in the list
because Old Loglan had {bifte} = "beefsteak" and I felt that lujvo did
not adequately convey steak-ness.

> #wear out            X1 wears out (by itself)
> Nothing wears out by itself. se xaksu

There's wearing out which is not the result of actions by an active actor.
For example: corrosion.  However, xaksu x1 is now an event, and so se xaksu
is the best translation.

> #----- -----     (taksi; added post 1989: taxi)
> How do we say rent in Lojban? zasni na'e jatna se vencu karce

There used to be a wonderfully meaningful tanru: { pleji karce } =
"pay car".

The TLI primitive words for creatures (e.g. dragon) and foods (e.g.
Brie cheese) are a real good argument for shoving these into le'avla,
in my opinion.

> #----- mirdo     (prim: myriad = 10000 non-metric prefix)
> Good Lord. Good Lord...

I learned this as "a lakh of rupees".  In my opinion we should junk
the stupid metric prefixes, both in Lojban and in English.  I find it
much more communicative to say to a user, "you're hogging fifty million
bytes with your image files and core dumps" than to say "fifty
megabytes".  I've actually had people ask me, "how much is a megabyte?"
And in engineering calculations you have to convert the prefix to
a power of ten anyway.  Also, the interesting numbers are out of
range, e.g. Avogadro's number, 6.02e23 (molecules per mole).  Should
you say six hundred and two kilopetamolecules?  (I think it's peta.)

> #----- sakhi     (borrowing: saki wine)
> vanjrsaki

If Toshiro Mifune pronounces it "sake'" (rhymes with English "ray", sort
of, except isn't supposed to be a diphthong), then I pronounce it "sake'".

> #----- troti     (prim: trot)
> This is lunacy. no'e sutra ke xirma klama

Someone was cutting corners when "troti" was manufatured as a fusion of
base language root words.  But animal gaits aren't that lunatic to me.
Just because you only have two legs, it's blatant speciesism to only
have gismu for the 2-leg gaits (walk, run).

> #karto -----     (deleted during GMR)
> What's this? Playing cards? kelkarda

I always thought it was like a business card.

                -- jimc