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Re: TECH: specifity & definiteness

la .i,n cusku di'e

> > What is an [] example of a specific indefinite reference (in English)?
> Assuming that And's talking about the definite article
> "the" vs. the indefinite article "a", then this is one
> of the points I've tried to make several times now.

Since then And has said that definiteness is not tied to the article "the",
but rather is a listener-centric property: the listener is expected to
know the referent.  Lojban doesn't have any direct way of expressing this.

BTW, nobody so far has given an example of -specific +definite in English.
lojbab has produced one case in Lojban:

        A: mi klama le zarci
        B: le zarci be ma

        A: I'm going to the house.
        B: Whose house?

Here A's use is +specific -definite; he knows what he means, but doesn't
necessarily expect B to know, and indeed B does not.  However, when B
uses the construction, it is -specific +definite; B expects A to know the
referent, but B doesn't know the referent!  Needless to say, this case is
highly anomalous, and arises because B is parroting A's usage without real

John Cowan      cowan@snark.thyrsus.com         ...!uunet!lock60!snark!cowan
                        e'osai ko sarji la lojban.