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L.A. group's aphorisms and other activities



   Date:         Fri, 11 Oct 1991 08:28:00 PDT
   From: PETE THOMAS <pthomas%ARECIBO.AERO.ORG@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
   X-To:         lojban <lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>

     ci mi'a fanva lo tanju'a la lojban. le gicbau

     the three of us (me and unspecified others) translate aphorisms (tanru
     sentences) to Lojban from English (language of English
     culture/nationality).
   How do I put this in the past tense, and would usage accept gicbau as
   English, or should we just say "la englis."?

Looks okay.  I'll note, though, that if you're speaking for the people
involved, you might want to use "ci mi" (three of us), recalling that "mi"
needn't be singular.  "mi'a" draws a distinction between the person
speaking and the referent.  Not that you're wrong, this is a matter of
style and taste.  Also note that "ci mi'a" means "three of: me/us and
others".  Not quite "we three".  I'm not sure how to get that.  You don't
really need tense in this case, but if you want you can do stuff like "ci
mi'a pu fanva ..." (earlier translated) or "ci mi'a ba'o fanva" (perfective
translated), or even specify the exact time with "ca" (during, while).  As
to English.  There are various ways.  Your method here is correct, but
lacks parallelism.  You might use "le lobybau" and "le gicbau" (or jbobau or
glibau or whatever), using the gismu "lojbo" for "Lojbanic
culture/nationality" which has rafsi "jbo" and "lob".  Alternatively, you
can use "la lojban." and "la .englic." or use "translated names" for both:
"la lojban." and "la gliban" (or "gicyban." or whatever).

   Our first aphorism is our translation of "the early bird gets the worm":
     su'a relo liryrai cipni pu'i kavbu lo curnu
     generalizing: all superlatively-early birds can and do catch worms

Typo: you meant "ro" (all) instead of "re" (two).  Oops.  The "lo" after
"ro" is redundant, but permissible.  I'm pretty sure that you can elide the
"cu" here, as you have done.  Other alternatives include using "piro loi
clira cipni ..." (all-of the-mass-of early birds) (I don't see that the
"rai" is needed here, but that's just me), or even leave out "piro"
altogether and make your claim about the mass of birds as a whole.  Or you
can use the "typical" articles, giving "lo'e clira cipni pu'i kavbu lo'e
curnu" (the-typical early-bird can-and-does catch the-typical worm).
Whatever works for you.  I'm sure lojbab can come up with even more exotic
constructions.

   Second:  number ten from the list of untranslated aphorism in JL15:  "not to
   decide is to decide"
     lo'i nu na jdice cu nu jdice
     the event of not deciding, is a decision

This one I have a little trouble with, unless it's just a typo.  "lo'i"
means "the set of", so you're saying that the set of events of not deciding
is an even of deciding.  I think that misses it.  I'd change that to "lo'e"
or "lo", and you're in business.  Otherwise, it's great (good usage of "nu"
in a place other than "le nu").

   Third:  number thirty-one:  "there is nothing permanent except change"
     roda vitno .i jo da du loi nu cenba
     all things are permanent if-and-only-if they are events of change

This is the first one I can actually disagree with.  If you look at your
English, you can see that it doesn't say the same thing as the original.
You mean to say not that *everything* is permanent only-of it's an even of
change, but that *only those things* which are events of change are
permanent.  Thus, we can have "da vitno jo nu cenba" (something1 is
permanent-iff-an-event-of-change), or "da vitno nagi'a nu cenba" (just
about the same thing, but with the selbri joined as bridi-tails, not in a
tanru), or, in the style of Bob's Occam's Razor, "roda poi vitno cu nu
cenba" (all something1's which-are-permanent are events of change), and a
million variants on this theme.

~mark