Re: Veridical and Masses (was Nick tries valiantly...)

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From: jimc@math.ucla.edu
Message-Id: <9104251627.AA07288@julia.math.ucla.edu>
To: lojban-list@snark.thyrsus.com
Subject: Re: Veridical and Masses (was Nick tries valiantly...)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 23 Apr 91 13:51:59 EDT."
             <m0jVRX1-0000ltC@snark.thyrsus.com> 
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 09:26:52 -0700

>> = John Cowan
> = Jim Carter

>> It is the function of the mass articles ("lai", "lei", "loi") to refer
>> to the individuals aggregated together, and of the set articles
>> ("la'i", "le'i", "lo'i") to refer to the sets composed of the individuals.
>> If you say "The letters of the alphabet are of Roman origin", you can say
>> "le lerfu", because it is true of each of them.  If you say "The letters
>> of the alphabet are ultimately of Phoenician origin", you must use "lei"
>> because it is true only of the letters considered >en masse<; some are not
>> of Phoenician origin but were invented later.  If you say "The letters of
>> the alphabet number 26", you must use "le'i", because no single letter
>> "numbers 26", whatever that would mean.

>For me, "mass" has been even more slippery than "veridical sumti".  When the
>team (mass) carries the log, I have a lot of trouble to distinguish this from
>how the set carries the log.  OK, a set has no arms, but neither does a team,
>only the members of the (team, set) have arms.  Similarly, in a sports team
>each member has a different job, but equally in a traditional set such as the
>ring of integers, particular members like 0 and 1 have specialized roles. 

If my memory isn't failing me (and I'm sure someone will correct me if it is)
the distinction is in the way the operation is carried out.  To continue Jim's
sports analogy a bit further, a mass individual is something like an 8-person
crew, in which all eight members are jointly involved in getting their boat
from start to finish.  The set would be more like those members of a track
team competing in a given event, say a 100 meter dash.  Each member of the
set individually runs the 100 meters.  In many cases this is hair-splitting.
The cases where it isn't are those where one person by himself is unable
to perform the task.  For example, the claim "The mass individual composed of
ten men carried the Volkswagen beetle accross the street", is one we might
believe.  The claim "Each of those ten men carried the Volkswagen beetle
across the street, by themselves", is less likely to be believed, even if
all ten look like members of the Soviet weightlifting team.  That last
comment suggests an even better sports analogy. If I say, "The Michigan
State offensive line can bench press 150 kilos", presumably I mean that
each individual in the MSU offensive line can bench press 150 kilos, not
that the five together can collectively lift 150 kilos.

Dave Bowen
claim that