Re: Summary so far on DJUNO

[And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>]

Lojbab to Jorge:
> >>xusra is more akin to cusku than it is to any discussion of truth.
> >
> >The main difference between {xusra} and {cusku} is precisely the
> >truth component, isn't it?
>
> No.  The difference is the "claim". lo se xusra are that portion of lo se
 cusku
> which are "claimed", not that portion which are "true".  The reason for
> including the word "true" in the gismu definition is clarity in English as to
> what it means to "claim" something.  So that people don't go using "xusra"
> to claim their lost jewelry at a lost and found office.  Same with the use of
> "true" in djuno, to keep it straight from other English ways to "know".
[...]
> >Right. Under the above definition you'd be asserting:
> >
> >-that x1 is a person or other entity capable of cognition
> >-that x2 is a true proposition, that it can be arrived at by x4, that
> >  it is believed by x1, etc.
> >-that x3 is the subject of x2
> >-that x4 is way that leads to truths, that x1 used that way to arrive at x2,
> >etc.
> >
> >That relationship is indeed possible, even if it is not the one you
> >intended for {djuno}.
>
> I have NO idea what youi mean by "x2 is a true proposition" as distinct from
> "x2 is a proposition" in that description UNLESS you tell me whether it
> means lo fatci (in which case no metaphysics need apply) or it is lo jetnu
> (in which case a metaphysics MUST apply).  I know of no other possible meaning
> for "true" that makes it semantically meaningful in that phrase.  If neither
> of those applies then you could have said:
> <-that x2 is a proposition thatcan be arrived at by x4 ...

How about, instead of "x2 is a true proposition":

      x2 is the case

or

      x2 obtains

or

      x2 is a logical condition for the djuno bridi

(or anything that circumvents your neurosis about use of the word
"truth")?

God help you if you ever tried to translate/write a logic textbook in
Lojban! How on earth would you render the notions that in English are
called _True_/_False_?

--And.