Re: Phone game: Gleem

[CJ FINE <cbmvax!uunet!BRADFORD.AC.UK!C.J.Fine>]

Ivan answers Nick:
>
> >  Date: Mon, 25 May 92 11:47:58 +1000
> >  From: nsn@AU.OZ.Mu.ee.mullian

> >  [Colin] comments:
> >
> >  ]"9 out of 10" was amazingly hard. "piso lei" is obvious, but somehow
> >  ]doesn't seem right for this meaning.
>
> It is wrong.  If {re le} means `two of the', not `twice as many',
> then {piso le} means (in this case) `.9 of a house operator', not `.9
> of the entire quantity of house operators'.  {pimu le pano cukta} is
> half a book, not five books.

I didn't say "piso le" I said "piso lei".

>
> >  ]I settled on the fraction - I think we are too ready to use decimals an
> >  ]not ready enough to use fractions - they have a different kind of
> >  ]precision about them.
>
> Why?  As I understand it, since (mathematically) 9/10 = .9,
> {sofi'upano} means exactly the same thing(s) as {piso}.  Nowhere does
> it say that one type of fraction may be less precise than the other.

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!
This is elementary metrology. In arithmetic, 9/10 = .9,
but in physics, or applied maths, or the real world, they are not the
same, because they imply different standards of accuracy. As I said in
an earlier mail, all measurements (and hence all numbers used as
quantifiers) have an express or implied accuracy. If Lojban is not to
reproduce the scientific implications of using decimal and vulgar
fractions, then we must state explicitly what accuracy is to be applied,
and will need to use my "accuracy" operator a lot more.

>
> >  ]"housewife" was hard as well.
> >
> >  It looks odd, but makes sense.
>
> Not to me.  I interpret {zdasazri} as `chief butler'.  You know,
> someone you have hired to take care for your domestic economy.
>

This is our (your and my) argument over precision again. I agree that
"zdasazri" can mean "chief butler" - I did not see it necessary to
distinguish the kind of house-operator.

> >  As quick as someone reasonably quick, Nora relays:
> >
> >  fi vei so pa'i pano le zdaku'i poi ve preti cu zmapluka fa la glim.
> >  le cabna lumpu'o pe pa'aku
> >
> >  Now let me see this. In {vei so su'i pano}, you take 9, you take 10, and
 the
> >  answer is what you get when you add 'em, and that's how many housekeepers
> >  you get. So you take 9, you take 10, you take their ratio... and is the
> >  result something you can put in front of "housekeepers" and have make
 sense?
>
> Well, {vei so fe'i pano (which is the same as {piso} or {sofi'upano}
> le zdaku'i} is what you'll get if you choose one of the housemaids,
> take a scimitar and hack off one-tenth of her (about 6kg).  Hopefully
> {vei so pa'i pano} is npot the same thing.

I have never been happy that I understood "pa'i", and this doesn't help
me. I still think that "lei" is a good idea.

>
> >  Ivan, finally:
> >
> >  lu'a pino lei lazyzda sazri poi ve preti cu jinvi leka xagmau be le
> >  ta'urlumpu'o poi cata'e pilno ke'a kei la'o gy. Gleam gy.

"lu'a ... lei" is good.

			Kolin