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Re: cukta
When the Lojban lessons refer to `cukta', they refer to instances of
what some people have defined humorously as {fu'e zo'o} low-tech,
`Built-in Orderly Organized Knowledge' artifacts, that, through the
acronym became called "BOOKs". {fu'o}
<see glossary of discursives at end of message>
{paunai} Rhetorically, let me ask, Should this continue, or should we
change the word used in the lessons, or change the definition of
`cukta'?
{to'u} In brief, {pe'i} in my opinion, `cukta' should be changed to
`selpapri' in the lessons; and, the definition of `cukta' should be
amended such that its use in the lessons is actually correct
({ki'unai} even though it is no longer used in the lessons)
{to'unai} Let me explain what I mean in detail. Art Protin is correct
when he says that "The work is software and is medium independent."
{ku'i} However, conventional meanings are slow to change.
{du'eroi} More often than I wish, I find myself editing and publishing
stretches of text that can either be marked onto paper as a
conventional printed book or be copied into a computer system as
hypertext information.
{da'inai} As a practical matter, I find that I need to specify the
word "printed" when I refer to hard copy publications, otherwise, some
people become confused and think I am refering to an on-line version
{po'o} only. For example,
A Texinfo file can be formatted and typeset as a printed book or manual.
A Texinfo-based book is similar to any other typeset, printed work: ...
{zu'unai} On the other hand, I avoid referring to an on-line hypertext
document as a `book'; instead, I say,
From the same Texinfo source file, you can create a menu-driven,
on-line Info file ...
{na'o} Typically, I refer to an on-line version as a `file', `copy',
or `document'. {sa'e} Speaking precisely, both `copy' and `document'
are ambiguous as to medium. When I say "I have a copy of `Pride and
Prejudice'", I may be refering either to my printed hard copy or my
on-line electronic copy. I have both. The medium depends on context.
{ta'e} My habit is to use the word `book' to refer to a printed,
physical artifact, real or imagined, but I do not do this always.
{ja'a} For sure, I find it necessary to specify "printed" when I am
specifically referring to a hardcopy version of the `work'. (I often
use the word `document' to refer to texts that are both on-line and
printed as hardcopy.)
{pe'i} I think it is likely that for the next few years, when you say
`book' without other context, people will assume you mean an artifact
constructed by binding sheets of paper together.
{da'i} Suppose, however, that someone finds you curled up in bed
reading a display on a flat, lightweight, rectangular, magazine-sized
device. If you say, "what a a great book", that person won't think the
physical device is the book, he or she will presume that the text you
are reading is the book.
{su'anai} To get to particulars, all this leads me to suggest that
`cukta' be kept almost as-is, with an addition to its definition
saying that the fifth place, if not otherwise specified, is for now
presumed to be `lo papri' as a default.
The new version of the definition looks like this:
cukta cku book <> x1 is a book about subject/theme/story x2 by
author x3 for audience x4 preserved in medium x5 <>
[this is a quantity of text, and not the physical object (=
selpapri); however, by default x5 = lo papri. <unless, over
the next years, the usual medium in which books are preserved
changes.>
x2 may be a convention rather than
a subject]; (cf. cfika, prina, prosa, tcidu, papri)
where `papri' is defined as it is now as:
papri page 'paper' <> x1 is a [physical] page/leaf of
book/document/bound mass of pages x2 <> [page as a
{ku'i} However, the referents in the Lojban lessons are to books in
the sense of `bound masses of pages'. Students would be less confused
if `cukta' were changed to `selpapri' in those cases, {ki'unai} even
though the new definition `cukta' applies.
The `blank book' you can buy in a store is an instance of `lo
selpapri' without any printing, i.e. a bound mass of pages. (Based on
what Jorge Llambias said, in Spanish, this might be translated as
"cuaderno".) `cukta' may not be used for `blank book'.
Here is a summary of the various concepts we are discussing:
* for composition; `selfinti' or `seltcidu' or the new definition
of `cukta'.
finti fin fi'i invent <> x1 invents/creates/composes/authors x2 for
function/purpose x3 from existing elements/ideas x4 =
<> [x1 is creative/inventive]; (cf. cmavo list fi'e,
ciska, pemci, zbasu, larcu, specific works of
authorship, prosa, skina)
(Would a Spaniard translate `selfinti' as "obra", or a Roman translate
`selfinit' as the Latin "opus"? I think so.)
tcidu tid read <> x1 [agent] reads x2 [text] from
surface/document/reading material x3; x1 is a reader <>
(cf. ciska, cukta, karni)
<new definition>
cukta cku book <> x1 is a book about subject/theme/story x2 by
author x3 for audience x4 preserved in medium x5 <>
[this is a quantity of text, and not the physical
object (= selpapri); however, by default x5 = lo papri.
<unless the usual medium in which books are preserved changes.>
x2 may be a convention rather than
a subject]; (cf. cfika, prina, prosa, tcidu, papri)
* for an on-line copy `vreji' or `selciska' or `selcusku'
vreji rej vei record <> x1 is a record of x2 (data/facts/du'u) about
x3 (object/event) preserved in medium x4 = <>
(cf. sorcu, datni, papri)
ciska ci'a write 'scribe' <> x1 inscribes/writes x2 on
display/storage medium x3 with writing implement x4; x1
is a scribe <> [also x3 writing surface]; (cf. papri,
penbi, pinsi, tcidu, xatra, pixra, prina, finti for
'author' or specific authorial works, barna, pinka)
cusku cus sku express <> x1 (agent) expresses/says x2
(sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) for audience x3 via
expressive medium x4 <> [also says]; (cf. bacru, tavla,
casnu, spuda, cmavo list cu'u, bangu, dapma, jufra,
pinka)
* for a printed hardcopy: `selpapri' or `cukta'
papri page 'paper' <> x1 is a [physical] page/leaf of
book/document/bound mass of pages x2 <> [page as a
quantity of text (= paprysfe, paprysfelai)];
(cf. karni, pelji, prina, xatra, vreji, pezli, cukta,
ciska)
Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Rattlesnake Mountain Road bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us
Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (413) 298-4725
Here is a glossary of discursives and other indicators, in order of
appearance:
fu'e begin indicator long scope
fu'o end indicator scope
zo'o humorously
{paunai} Rhetorically, let me ask, rhetorical question
{to'u} In brief, skipping details
{pe'i} in my opinion, I opine
{ki'unai} even though despite reason
{to'unai} Let me explain what I mean in detail. in detail
{ku'i} However make an exception to previous argument
{du'eroi} More often than I wish, too-many times
{da'inai} As a practical matter real-world point of view
{po'o} only the only relevant case
{zu'unai} On the other hand on the other hand
{na'o} Typically characteristically/typically
{ta'e} My habit is habitually (time tense)
{ja'a} For sure bridi affirmer
{pe'i} I think I opine
{da'i} Suppose non-real-world viewpoint
{su'anai} To get to particulars I particularize
{ku'i} However make an exception to previous argument
{ki'unai} even thought despite reason