Re: cukta

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

JL> > I can weasel on the text samples you give, except one.  Except that one,
JL> > are dealing with "le" cukta.
JL>
JL> I think this is not fair. If one can't use {lo cukta} in those examples,
JL> then they're extremely misleading. The meaning of {cukta} one learns from
JL> them is the physical object.

I said I was weaseling %^)  The dialogs were written long before we debated
the meaning.  They were not intended to teach semantics of vocabulary (you
could easily substitute some other 'correct' value for the physical object) and
not cause problems in the textbook rewrite - this WAS a draft, remember.
And yes, I feel no qualms in using "le" to weasel on a semantics issue.
Indeed, I suspect MOST people will use vocabulary inexactly and will need
to use "le" as a result.  I am not sure whether this is good; probably not.

But if I say "mi viska le nanmu", I do not necessarily wish to claim that
I have inspected the genitalia and/or genes of the thing I see to ensure
that it is indeed human, adult, and male. "le" objectifies something based on
some apparent principles.  A physical book PROBABLY contains a 'work' - I
don't need to check if I use "le".  There may be a more limited or more
accurate claim that I could make, but language is always a matter of
convenience.

Now if you successfully argue that a) there is misleading here and b) there
is a better definition or c) there is a better example that can be used in
the textbook - then, I have no problems with changing either the definition
or the text.  But the stuff was written without a lot of care to semantics,
and you will no doubt find many other cases of such sloppiness if you look
hard (do we smell some sumti-raising???? probably...), so I welcome you
looking further for problems as well.

So let us see what the rest of the community says about "cukta".  Bob Chassell,
Sylvia Rutiser, John Cowan among other son the list were present in the debate
and are especially welcome to weigh in, and I will also check with Nora.

lojbab